76 replies to this topic

[oleman]

And after all the brushes with death, that our heroes went home and promptly reproduced like rabbits seems psychologically persuasive and wholly in character.

but of course...

Ahh well, money changes everything. Compromising a story for the sake of a theme park is the difference between a work of art and just popular entertainment. If what you say is true then I can never consider Rowling a literary genius.

I was about to say marketing genius and in a "litterary" sort of way....If two kittens are good then ten are better....

Check out this pretty funny reading diary of New York book critic Sam Anderson's experience with the book. He brings up a good point about how absurd it is that Ron so easily learns Parseltongue.
http://nymag.com/dai...ly_hallows.html
New York’ Book Critic Sam Anderson's ‘Deathly Hallows’ Reading Diary


Saturday, 6:02 p.m. Page 434. I smell terrible and am eating peanut butter directly out of the jar and fighting off another nap. Reading this novel apparently creates the same symptoms as major depression and agoraphobia.


This is how I read


Saturday, 6:50 p.m. Page 460. I'm getting woozy from the overplotting. Rowling has cranked the "coincidence" dial up to eleven and is now flagrantly abusing her "imminent-death-thwarted-at-the-last-possible-moment" privileges. Harry has just been saved from certain doom, 007-style, by his captors' greedy bickering. Then he's thrown in a dungeon that also happens to contain most of his long-lost friends. As a reader, my interest in the plot has been reduced to two main questions: (1) Does Snape turn out to be good? and (2) Does Harry live or die? I officially don't care about the links that get us there. Roughly five hours of reading to go before I can be reunited with my family.

Die Harry Die....



Sunday, 3:40 p.m. Page 610. Voldemort delivers a menacing speech using high-school valedictorian rhetoric: "Give me Harry Potter, and none shall be harmed. Give me Harry Potter, and I shall leave the school untouched. Give me Harry Potter, and you will be rewarded."


This reminds me of The Incredible's when Syndrome is monologuing....very funny...


Sunday, 4:22 p.m. Page 625. Two inexcusable things happen very quickly. First, Ron skips back with an armful of basilisk fangs from the Chamber of Secrets, which he says he got into by faking Parseltongue. You know, Parseltongue: the horrifying snake-language hitherto spoken exclusively by Harry and Voldemort and serpents — a talent so rare that Harry was ostracized when people found out about it. Ron says he just imitated the noises he heard Harry make. Now, excuse my righteous Potter-dork anger here, but this is absurd — if this were possible, dark wizards and mischievous Hogwarts students would have been faking it for centuries, raising all kinds of snake-related hell. It's a totally B.S. plot shortcut that needs to go on Rowling's permanent record.


Proof this is just for fun and profit


Sunday, 6:38 p.m. Page 738. And here's the cop-out. Harry Potter is actually Jesus Christ. It turns out that, because of the purity of his sacrifice, he doesn't actually have to die — he gets to go back and kill Voldemort. And just as a bonus, his sacrifice has redeemed humanity. As he tells Voldemort: "You won't be able to kill any of them ever again. Don't you get it? I was ready to die to stop you from hurting these people … I've done what my mother did. They're protected from you." Some would argue that the Bible is shorter and better.


Well it is imaginative at least...not....


Sunday, 6:55 p.m. Page 744. Harry and Voldemort circle each other like the knife fighters in "Beat It." Then Harry's wand-gush overpowers the Dark Lord's wand-gush: "Voldemort was dead, killed by his own rebounding curse, and Harry stood with two wands in his hand, staring down at his dead enemy's shell."

Sunday, 7:15 p.m. Page 759. After its brief flirtation with tragedy, the book ends with a disappointing (to me) epilogue full of har-har family-sitcom humor, in which the 36-year-old Harry and the gang, all blissfully intermarried, drop off the next generation of wizards at Platform 9 3/4. It ends with a really bland and terrible last sentence.

I close the book, forever, on Sunday evening at 7:22. —Sam Anderson

Not bad....

[goldglv17]

Good stuff zol. While I feel the author was determined to crap on this book regardless of the quality of it, I did find many of his quibs hilarious.

And here's the cop-out. Harry Potter is actually Jesus Christ.

[metzol]

Good stuff zol. While I feel the author was determined to crap on this book regardless of the quality of it, I did find many of his quibs hilarious.

I agree. He seemed determined to do that, but he still confessed to being a Potter-head. I loved the JC line too.

But this is the funniest line:
"Sunday, 6:55 p.m. Page 744. Harry and Voldemort circle each other like the knife fighters in "Beat It."

[metzol]

MJ is Voldemort?? He has the slits for nostrils!

[DW]

Re:Ron speaking Parseltongue

Didn't he say something about the Horcrux leaving that imprint on him? That would actually make some sense, since he was nearly driven mad by it before he destroyed it.

[goldglv17]

I agree. He seemed determined to do that, but he still confessed to being a Potter-head. I loved the JC line too.

But this is the funniest line:
"Sunday, 6:55 p.m. Page 744. Harry and Voldemort circle each other like the knife fighters in "Beat It."

While that one was hilarious, this slaughtered me:

right down to the fish-in-a-barrel sexual innuendo:

He drew out his own wand and compared the lengths.
"Enough," said Voldemort, stroking the angry snake.

"And you, Draco?" asked Voldemort, stroking the snake's snout with his wand-free hand.

[Doc]

I finally finished yesterday. I'll be back to read and post later. I was very surprised to find that Rosebud was the last Horcrux tho.

[goldglv17]

I finally finished yesterday. I'll be back to read and post later. I was very surprised to find that Rosebud was the last Horcrux tho.

And that Harry was dead through the whole series.

[Doc]

And that Harry was dead through the whole series.

No, I knew that as soon as I saw in Book 1 that he couldn't open the door to the closet under the stairs, and that his wife wouldn't talk to him in the restaurant.

[Doc]

Okay, my thoughts--after reading all of yours:

First off I thoroughly enjoyed reading the book from cover to cover. I thought JKR did a great job pulling most of the threads in previous books together. I liked the continued themes of the importance of family, the plight of the poor and the unrepresented, the corruption by power, and the hope of change both from within as well as around us.

My favorite parts of the book:

The death of Moody and Hedwig immediately bringing to the forefront that War is first about death.

Those deaths transitioning into a wedding--tho using Harry as an usher really didn't hide him very well.

The break in at the Ministry. No not the Mission Impossible part, but rather the parts that exposed how terrible the plan was conceived. Randomly choosing a disguise for Ron nearly cost the immediate death of a family, and quickly made these kids realize their actions have long standing consequences as that family most likely suffered later.

The disappearance and return of Ron. I suspect Ron was supposed to die, but JKR couldn't bring herself to do it. I agree with zol that the three kids bickering was becoming annoying. I don't think anything could have ended it except breaking them up for a few chapters. I do think Harry should have made a move on Hermione for old times sake. And about that, how is it that three teems go camping and not one of the boys sleeps next to the girl? Perhaps all that pent up frustration resulted in the quick weddings and child making post the war.

The tale of the Hallows, leading to the rescue of Luna. Being a person who has to deal with the here and now at work all the time, I love characters who live in the twilight and and fog.

The death of Dobby. Until that point I really didn't see Harry as ever growing up. I'm glad that after this key turning point where Harry finally gets who he is trying to save, he did NOT become a great leader. JKR could have had Harry command the army at Hogwarts, but instead put him on a path by himself to fight a battle alone, and without hope of survival just to save all the other Dobbys.

The Tale of the Prince was some of the best writing of the series. I think all the themes of the books were encapsulated within that chapter bringing the story of the lonely loser to lonely hero to a triumphant conclusion.

The rebirth of Neville. How great was it that the kid who couldn't hold onto a toad, becomes leader of the DA and pulls the Sword from the Hat to slay the Snake?

The pyche job Harry pulled on Voldemort in the final....dance? It really wasn't a duel, was it?


My least favorite parts of the book:

The Death Eaters. Did any of them fight, ever? These guys couldn't use magic for anything. The prominent deaths--some mentioned above--were all accidents, where the intended victim escaped. There really should have been a few more deaths thru out the book.

The blatant borrowing from other stories. I don't mean the Christ imagery, as much of English literature is based on Arthurian legend which in turn stems from stories of the Bible. No, I mean Ravenclaw's Tiara. I think someone has been lurking in our POTM threads. Actually, the Star Wars and Lord of the Rings references were a bit much.

The Malfoys becoming total wusses. I don't mind them being beaten by Voldemort's brutality but they lost their spines so early in the story they became insulting to rich conservative bigots everywhere.

The Kings Cross chapter was just silly. I had visions of the All White Ship in the original Battlestar Galactica where Apollo's uniform becomes bleached out as the Ghost of Mrs Muir fame lectures him on responsibility. I would have rather he spoke to Albus in a Picture.

The whole Elder Wand owner thing. That was a huge stretch. I do understand the Harry didn't stand a chance with Voldemort, so he needed some wa y out but one curse thrown only? JK I need a little more fight in my...well fight.

Well that is the thoughts so far. I'm sure I'll have more.

[gak29]

Actually, the Sta Wars and Lord of the Rings references were a bit much.

For a second there, I thought you actually meant there were Star Wars references in the book.... I had to reread that. And, to admit, along with my previous admission to having no desire to actually read the Harry Potter books and just wait for the movies (but now i pretty much now the rest of the story past the Order of the Phoenix), I have no clue how LOTR goes, and, thus, I didn't reference it. I looked through the book, and it scared the poop outta me, and I took a nap from credits to credits at my only attempt to see one of the movies.

But, I mean, and I pray you don't mind me rambling on a comparison between the two, Harry Potter is the new Star Wars and it's so freakin similar. Palpatine and Voldemort? Snape and Vader? Harry and Luke? Hermoine and Leia? Dumbledore and Obi-Wan? Does anyone else see this? The only difference is that George Costanza replaces Han Solo in Ron. (In fact, maybe it would have been cool if, somehow, an American charmingly arrogant Han Solo-like character had a role in this. Unless one shows up in the last two books I don't know about?)

Not knocking down, but it's what I see (especially since Star Wars is my "Favorite movie of the month," as Goldie puts it, when I finally set aside time to watch the original trilogy in the whole 30th anniversary thing on HBO in May). Harry Potter is great because it takes a huge struggle between good and evil, like Star Wars, but makes it relatable to the audience. Think about it, how well do you know the personality of Luke Skywalker? His demons concern a higher being, the Force, and a grander cause, the freedom of the galaxy. After leaving Tatooine, do we hear of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru again? In fact, it's not until after Luke learns Leia's his sister where we see family affect Luke. Harry, on the other hand, seems a thousand times more human than Luke in that family and friendship concept affects him throughout. (Kinda makes you wonder if Lucas was a bit lucky and maybe stumbled upon the Star Wars saga plot.) Rowling made a grandiose plot seem less so. Very cool.

I guess what it comes down to is, you either need to be someone very special or very lucky to come up with a storyline that is 1) completely original and 2) not have its drawbacks. Like the story I'm (ugh) trying to write now is a strange concoction of Hamlet, The Godfather, and Death Wish sprinkled with Batman and Goodfellas. Little of it is truely original, but that shouldn't take anything away from it.

[Doc]

Gak, Star Wars is just a simple protagonist/antagonist plot. A very good story, but a simple plot. It follows Arthurian Legend stories quite well. Luke is Arthur, an orphaned boy who grows from obscurity to herodom (sound familiar Potter fans?) Obi Wan is Merlyn. Han is Lancelot. Leia, Gwen. A lightsaber is Excalibur, and so on. Harry Potter takes a very similar road as Star Wars because they are based on the same principle--a heroic orphaned child, with his best friend, a girl they share, tutored by a sage old kook, set out upon a quest with dangers unknown.

[gak29]

Gak, Star Wars is just a simple protagonist/antagonist plot. A very good story, but a simple plot. It follows Arthurian Legend stories quite well. Luke is Arthur, an orphaned boy who grows from obscurity to herodom (sound familiar Potter fans?) Obi Wan is Merlyn. Han is Lancelot. Leia, Gwen. A lightsaber is Excalibur, and so on. Harry Potter takes a very similar road as Star Wars because they are based on the same principle--a heroic orphaned child, with his best friend, a girl they share, tutored by a sage old kook, and set out upon a quest with dangers unknown.

Oh wow. I missed that. I feel of duhing myself.

[Nigel'sStillConfused]

OK, I finally finished this book. I liked it (some parts immensely) but did not love it. I agree with a number of the comments that were posted here, so will try to limit mine to what hasn't been said before.

1. To me, the high water mark of the whole series was Goblet of Fire. Particularly the show down between Potter and Voldemort. The showdown here was massively anticlimatic in comparison. If anything, it felt very much like a weak rehash. And not even close to Frodo's final encounter with Gollum atop Mount Doom.

2. Rowling is an entertaining writer with flashes of brilliance, particularly as a satirist. However, in terms of epic works of fantasy, I don't think its even a close competition with Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, or certain works of Stephen King (particularly the Dark Tower series.) Tolkien and Lewis's work have a great deal more gravitas. I also find from a plot perspective, LOTR is much easier to follow.

3. The ghost/talking picture devices in all the books bother me. What's the downside of being dead if you really aren't dead and can interact (sometimes physically) with the characters?

4. The dialogue at the end was very poorly written. Voldemort sounds almost comical. Reminded me of Dark Helmet from SPACEBALLS

5. I did not truly believe that any of the characters were 17 years old. They seemed no more different than when they were 10. Compare it with, for example, Stephen King's THE BODY or CHRISTINE. Granted, Potter remains a kids book, so not a fair comparison. But King's EYES OF THE DRAGON is largely aimed at younger audiences, and the characters seem more sophisticated. If her audience is largely 17 year olds I think they will roll their eyes.

6. I think she's at her strongest when she writes comedy. The last 4 books have been much darker and the humor has been mostly political in nature. In contrast, the earlier books (and my favorite is CHAMBER OF SECRETS) where more whimisical (while maintaining a genuine sense of menace), and often reminded me of Roald Dahl books (Charlie and Chocolate Factory, James and Giant Peach) I loved and still love.

[birtelcom]

Gak, Star Wars is just a simple protagonist/antagonist plot. A very good story, but a simple plot. It follows Arthurian Legend stories quite well. Luke is Arthur, an orphaned boy who grows from obscurity to herodom (sound familiar Potter fans?) Obi Wan is Merlyn. Han is Lancelot. Leia, Gwen. A lightsaber is Excalibur, and so on. Harry Potter takes a very similar road as Star Wars because they are based on the same principle--a heroic orphaned child, with his best friend, a girl they share, tutored by a sage old kook, set out upon a quest with dangers unknown.

For Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans I would also point out some of the parallels between the Buffy and Harry Potter sagas. The ordinary youth with a vexing home life who discovers the blessing/curse of magical powers and a responsibility of leadership in the struggle against apocolyptic evil. But who also retains a substantial degree of ordinariness that allows us to identify with the character, provides a source of humor, and demands that the character, in order to succeed, must depend not just on his/her own resources but on the help of deeply committed friends and mentors. The key friends are the super-bright geeky girl (Willow/Hermione) and the goofy, super-loyal, working-class boy (Xander/Ron). The key mentor is an older male, academic type who instructs and watches over the fundamentally non-academic, common-sensical hero, whose basic modesty and lack of ambition is ultimately overcome by a maturing sense of resonsibility that leads to a leadership, even heroic, role in the community.

[Nigel'sStillConfused]

According to Wikepedia, here are some other (unpublished) final developments that Rowling mentioned in some interviews she gave following Deathly Hallows' release:



Rowling's commentary and supplement
In an interview and online chat, Rowling gave additional information on the futures of the main characters that she chose not to include in the epilogue of the book.

• Harry became an Auror and later head of the Aurors' department, under Kingsley's recommendation. He owns Sirius's bike, which Arthur Weasley fixed up for him. He is married to Ginny. Due to the destruction of the piece of Voldemort's soul that resided in him, Harry can no longer speak Parseltongue.
• Ron worked for a time with George at their store, Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes, and eventually became an Auror. He is married to Hermione.
• Hermione began a career at the Ministry of Magic at the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, and greatly improved life for house-elves and their ilk, but later moved to the Department of Magical Law Enforcement; she helped ensure the eradication of oppressive, pro-pureblood laws. She is married to Ron. She also found her parents and undid the memory modification she put upon them.
• Luna Lovegood has become a naturalist of sorts, searching the world for odd and unique creatures. She eventually marries Rolf, the grandson of Newt Scamander.^[7]
• Ginny Weasley played for the Holyhead Harpies Quidditch team for a while and then left behind her athletic career for marriage and family with Harry. She eventually becomes the lead Quidditch correspondent for the Daily Prophet.
• George Weasley names his first child Fred.
• Slytherin had become more diluted, and is no longer the pureblood bastion it once was. Nevertheless, its dark reputation lingers.
• Voldemort's jinx on the Defence Against the Dark Arts position was broken with his death. The subject has a permanent new, unnamed teacher, while Harry comes to lecture the class every so often.
• Firenze was welcomed back into the herd, as the rest of the herd was forced to acknowledge that Firenze's "pro-human leanings were not shameful, but honourable".
• Kingsley Shacklebolt permanently became Minister of Magic, with Percy working under him as a high official.
• Azkaban no longer uses Dementors, as part of the changes introduced by Kingsley. As a result, England is now a "much sunnier place."
• Dolores Umbridge was arrested, interrogated and imprisoned for crimes against Muggleborns.
• The Quibbler has returned to its usual condition of "advanced lunacy", and is appreciated for its unintentional humour.

Here is the link to the full Wiki site, which footnotes where you can find the interview:

http://thehappyrecap...?...f=31&t=2156

[Bruce Wayne]

According to Wikepedia, here are some other (unpublished) final developments that Rowling mentioned in some interviews she gave following Deathly Hallows' release:
Rowling's commentary and supplement
In an interview and online chat, Rowling gave additional information on the futures of the main characters that she chose not to include in the epilogue of the book.

• Harry became an Auror and later head of the Aurors' department, under Kingsley's recommendation. He owns Sirius's bike, which Arthur Weasley fixed up for him. He is married to Ginny. Due to the destruction of the piece of Voldemort's soul that resided in him, Harry can no longer speak Parseltongue.
• Ron worked for a time with George at their store, Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes, and eventually became an Auror. He is married to Hermione.
• Hermione began a career at the Ministry of Magic at the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, and greatly improved life for house-elves and their ilk, but later moved to the Department of Magical Law Enforcement; she helped ensure the eradication of oppressive, pro-pureblood laws. She is married to Ron. She also found her parents and undid the memory modification she put upon them.
• Luna Lovegood has become a naturalist of sorts, searching the world for odd and unique creatures. She eventually marries Rolf, the grandson of Newt Scamander.^[7]
• Ginny Weasley played for the Holyhead Harpies Quidditch team for a while and then left behind her athletic career for marriage and family with Harry. She eventually becomes the lead Quidditch correspondent for the Daily Prophet.
• George Weasley names his first child Fred.
• Slytherin had become more diluted, and is no longer the pureblood bastion it once was. Nevertheless, its dark reputation lingers.
• Voldemort's jinx on the Defence Against the Dark Arts position was broken with his death. The subject has a permanent new, unnamed teacher, while Harry comes to lecture the class every so often.
• Firenze was welcomed back into the herd, as the rest of the herd was forced to acknowledge that Firenze's "pro-human leanings were not shameful, but honourable".
• Kingsley Shacklebolt permanently became Minister of Magic, with Percy working under him as a high official.
• Azkaban no longer uses Dementors, as part of the changes introduced by Kingsley. As a result, England is now a "much sunnier place."
• Dolores Umbridge was arrested, interrogated and imprisoned for crimes against Muggleborns.
• The Quibbler has returned to its usual condition of "advanced lunacy", and is appreciated for its unintentional humour.

Here is the link to the full Wiki site, which footnotes where you can find the interview:

http://thehappyrecap...?...f=31&t=2156

Nigel, wou have the weakest link.

[birtelcom]

Gak, Star Wars is just a simple protagonist/antagonist plot. A very good story, but a simple plot. It follows Arthurian Legend stories quite well. Luke is Arthur, an orphaned boy who grows from obscurity to herodom (sound familiar Potter fans?) Obi Wan is Merlyn. Han is Lancelot. Leia, Gwen. A lightsaber is Excalibur, and so on. Harry Potter takes a very similar road as Star Wars because they are based on the same principle--a heroic orphaned child, with his best friend, a girl they share, tutored by a sage old kook, set out upon a quest with dangers unknown.

Interesting -- I found Luke's fundamental motivating force (in the original Star Wars movie) somewhat different than Buffy/Harry/Frodo. Luke is eager to have adventures, where Buffy and Harry and Frodo seem to have adventures more fully thrust upon them. Luke actually reminds me more of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz -- stuck in a colorless backwater and restless to explore a romanticized wider world -- which then happens upon him faster and more violently than expected, and which he ends up exploring with a tin man, a furry lion-like creature and a fellow who is smarter than he seems.

[goldglv17]

According to Wikepedia, here are some other (unpublished) final developments that Rowling mentioned in some interviews she gave following Deathly Hallows' release:
Rowling's commentary and supplement
In an interview and online chat, Rowling gave additional information on the futures of the main characters that she chose not to include in the epilogue of the book.

• Harry became an Auror and later head of the Aurors' department, under Kingsley's recommendation. He owns Sirius's bike, which Arthur Weasley fixed up for him. He is married to Ginny. Due to the destruction of the piece of Voldemort's soul that resided in him, Harry can no longer speak Parseltongue.
• Ron worked for a time with George at their store, Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes, and eventually became an Auror. He is married to Hermione.
• Hermione began a career at the Ministry of Magic at the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, and greatly improved life for house-elves and their ilk, but later moved to the Department of Magical Law Enforcement; she helped ensure the eradication of oppressive, pro-pureblood laws. She is married to Ron. She also found her parents and undid the memory modification she put upon them.
• Luna Lovegood has become a naturalist of sorts, searching the world for odd and unique creatures. She eventually marries Rolf, the grandson of Newt Scamander.^[7]
• Ginny Weasley played for the Holyhead Harpies Quidditch team for a while and then left behind her athletic career for marriage and family with Harry. She eventually becomes the lead Quidditch correspondent for the Daily Prophet.
• George Weasley names his first child Fred.
• Slytherin had become more diluted, and is no longer the pureblood bastion it once was. Nevertheless, its dark reputation lingers.
• Voldemort's jinx on the Defence Against the Dark Arts position was broken with his death. The subject has a permanent new, unnamed teacher, while Harry comes to lecture the class every so often.
• Firenze was welcomed back into the herd, as the rest of the herd was forced to acknowledge that Firenze's "pro-human leanings were not shameful, but honourable".
• Kingsley Shacklebolt permanently became Minister of Magic, with Percy working under him as a high official.
• Azkaban no longer uses Dementors, as part of the changes introduced by Kingsley. As a result, England is now a "much sunnier place."
• Dolores Umbridge was arrested, interrogated and imprisoned for crimes against Muggleborns.
• The Quibbler has returned to its usual condition of "advanced lunacy", and is appreciated for its unintentional humour.

Here is the link to the full Wiki site, which footnotes where you can find the interview:

http://thehappyrecap...?...f=31&t=2156

If I don;t click the link does that mean I can go on pretending that your commentary was factual, as I did enjoy it.

[gak29]

For Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans I would also point out some of the parallels between the Buffy and Harry Potter sagas. The ordinary youth with a vexing home life who discovers the blessing/curse of magical powers and a responsibility of leadership in the struggle against apocolyptic evil. But who also retains a substantial degree of ordinariness that allows us to identify with the character, provides a source of humor, and demands that the character, in order to succeed, must depend not just on his/her own resources but on the help of deeply committed friends and mentors. The key friends are the super-bright geeky girl (Willow/Hermione) and the goofy, super-loyal, working-class boy (Xander/Ron). The key mentor is an older male, academic type who instructs and watches over the fundamentally non-academic, common-sensical hero, whose basic modesty and lack of ambition is ultimately overcome by a maturing sense of resonsibility that leads to a leadership, even heroic, role in the community.

Ummm, Buffy the Vampire Slayer? C'mon, Birt......