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The Philthies are in trouble!


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#1 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:06 PM

Both knees are damaged!

Both Utley and Howard will be out once the season debuts in two weeks; furthermore, Utley's future may be in jeopardy since the chronic arthritis is now ion both knees.

Stay classy, Philly.
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#2 Big Country Griff

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:40 PM

Nearly $180 million in payroll, and they may have to go with Michael Martinez as the opening day second baseman. Couldn't happen to a better team.
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#3 gak29

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:38 PM

And, yet, they'll still win the division.
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#4 BelieveinNYM

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

And, yet, they'll still win the division.


Sadly, this.
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#5 jfsportz

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

And, yet, they'll still win the division.



This.

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#6 Train

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:24 AM

Philly falls to third if they don't have Utley and Howard for a portion of the season. Their offense is very overrated.
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#7 gak29

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:40 PM

Philly falls to third if they don't have Utley and Howard for a portion of the season. Their offense is very overrated.


They have Cliff Lee.

AND they have Roy Halladay.

That's over 9,000 WAR right there.
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#8 StrawberryFieldsForever

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:24 AM

When you see how comparatively ordinary/poor the rest of the division is, this won't worry them too much. As long as they get through this with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Papelborn all in good shape, they'll still win 90 games, which should be more than enough to take the East this year, they won't care if they go out and win games 3-2 or 2-1 instead of by a bigger margin. Utley has been hurt and on the decline for a couple of years now, and it hasn't hurt them that much.

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#9 gak29

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:15 PM

When you see how comparatively ordinary/poor the rest of the division is, this won't worry them too much. As long as they get through this with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Papelborn all in good shape, they'll still win 90 games, which should be more than enough to take the East this year, they won't care if they go out and win games 3-2 or 2-1 instead of by a bigger margin. Utley has been hurt and on the decline for a couple of years now, and it hasn't hurt them that much.


Disagree re: division competition. This is the toughest division in the NL, and second overall to the AL East. Every team (except the Mets) have killer assets. Miami and Atlanta don't really scare me as being contenders, but they'll have pieces to make it tough. Washington's rotation impresses me. They might win the Wildcard. But, the thing is, Halladay and Lee back-to-back is the best asset any team has ever had within the past 10 years. They don't even need Hamels. That's why I agree they'll win the division, but it won't be easy.

Also, I would have zero faith in Papelbon, if I were scum (Phillies fan). He is an implosion waiting to happen.
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#10 StrawberryFieldsForever

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:51 PM

Still not sure Gak. I'm just trying to see who of any upgrade/significance the Nats have on their roster this year that they didn't already have last year when they still finished under .500 again, and the only answer I can come up with is basically no-one, though I suppose having Ryan Zimmerman healthy all year would obviously help them. Though I do agree their pitching could be worth watching, though again a lot of people for some reason seem to be expecting a young guy who only made five starts and won one game in the whole of 2011 (Strasburg) to suddenly single-handedly make them a contender, I dunno why though, he's still totally unproven as a 30-35 starts pitcher at this level, and will be under huge pressure to deliver. For me the Phillies (fully healthy) are still the only team from the divison who would remotely scare anybody outside of the division. I admit I don't know much about Papelbon except he'll normally give you 35-40 saves most years at around a 2.00 ERA, so not exactly a liability! Though knowing Philly psychotic 'fans' it won't be long until he starts getting death-threats, probably about 20 minutes after his first blown save.

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#11 ils

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:25 PM

Disagree re: division competition. This is the toughest division in the NL, and second overall to the AL East. Every team (except the Mets) have killer assets. Miami and Atlanta don't really scare me as being contenders, but they'll have pieces to make it tough. Washington's rotation impresses me. They might win the Wildcard. But, the thing is, Halladay and Lee back-to-back is the best asset any team has ever had within the past 10 years. They don't even need Hamels. That's why I agree they'll win the division, but it won't be easy.

Also, I would have zero faith in Papelbon, if I were scum (Phillies fan). He is an implosion waiting to happen.

Agree here. The NL East is a stacked division (except for the Mets), but the Phillies are still the cream of the crop. The WC should come from here, and it would've last year too if not for the Braves' epic collapse.

#12 ils

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:27 PM

Still not sure Gak. I'm just trying to see who of any upgrade/significance the Nats have on their roster this year that they didn't already have last year when they still finished under .500 again, and the only answer I can come up with is basically no-one, though I suppose having Ryan Zimmerman healthy all year would obviously help them. Though I do agree their pitching could be worth watching, though again a lot of people for some reason seem to be expecting a young guy who only made five starts and won one game in the whole of 2011 (Strasburg) to suddenly single-handedly make them a contender, I dunno why though, he's still totally unproven as a 30-35 starts pitcher at this level, and will be under huge pressure to deliver. For me the Phillies (fully healthy) are still the only team from the divison who would remotely scare anybody outside of the division. I admit I don't know much about Papelbon except he'll normally give you 35-40 saves most years at around a 2.00 ERA, so not exactly a liability! Though knowing Philly psychotic 'fans' it won't be long until he starts getting death-threats, probably about 20 minutes after his first blown save.

A rotation of Strasburg, Gonzalez and Zimmermann could be very good. Strasburg has only pitched 92 innings in the majors, but they have been 92 incredible innings (116:19 K:BB for his career!). They also have a great bullpen and a few decent pieces on offense. But they're still the 4th best team in the division.

#13 Metsfan980

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:54 PM

But, the thing is, Halladay and Lee back-to-back is the best asset any team has ever had within the past 10 years. They don't even need Hamels. That's why I agree they'll win the division, but it won't be easy.


Hamels and Lee are an awesome combination, but they weren't the best duo in baseball last year:

2011 fWAR:

-Roy Halladay, 8.2
-Cliff Lee, 6.7

Lee + Halladay = 14.9

-Jacoby Ellsbury, 9.4
-Dustin Pedroia, 8.0

Ellsbury + Pedroia = 17.4

-Clayton Kershaw, 6.8
-Matt Kemp, 8.7

Kershaw + Kemp = 15.5

Even the Rays had a better duo in 2010.

2010 fWAR:

-Evan Longoria, 7.6
-Carl Crawford, 7.6

Longoria + Crawford = 15.2

Back to the Nationals (I realize I'm not disagreeing with you here), they brought in Gio Gonzalez (although he might miss the foul ground in Oakland) and Edwin Jackson, they should have a pair of healthy Zimmermans, the return of Adam LaRoche and a rebound season from Werth. Combine the aforemention with Strasburg, their somewhat productive up-the-middle, and a solid bullpen, and I think the Nationals are a good bet to challenge for a playoff spot.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NL East sends the Phillies, Braves, and Nationals to the playoffs this season.
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#14 gak29

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:30 PM

Hamels and Lee are an awesome combination, but they weren't the best duo in baseball last year:

2011 fWAR:

-Roy Halladay, 8.2
-Cliff Lee, 6.7

Lee + Halladay = 14.9

-Jacoby Ellsbury, 9.4
-Dustin Pedroia, 8.0

Ellsbury + Pedroia = 17.4

-Clayton Kershaw, 6.8
-Matt Kemp, 8.7

Kershaw + Kemp = 15.5

Even the Rays had a better duo in 2010.

2010 fWAR:

-Evan Longoria, 7.6
-Carl Crawford, 7.6

Longoria + Crawford = 15.2


Well, and maybe this is a useless context, but the fact that they are pitchers is the thing that gnaws at me the most. How many teams have had two pitchers in (I guess?) the top 10-15 in WAR?
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#15 Metsfan980

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:27 AM

The Angels (Dan Haren and Jered Weaver) and the Giants (Madison Bumgarner and Matt Cain) each had two pitchers in the top 15 of the fWAR rankings for pitchers last season.

I think the Phillies trio is one of the best in baseball, but I think the Giants and Angels both have better starting pitcher groups.
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#16 Hoovbacca

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

The Angels (Dan Haren and Jered Weaver) and the Giants (Madison Bumgarner and Matt Cain) each had two pitchers in the top 15 of the fWAR rankings for pitchers last season.

I think the Phillies trio is one of the best in baseball, but I think the Giants and Angels both have better starting pitcher groups.


i agree with this...the trio is the best in baseball, but i think there are other teams who are simply better....question is, are they in the NL East? Too many question marks to say that definitively they are or aren't.....in reality every team in the NL East has question marks...whoever wins the division will be a likely early playoff departure..unless the Phils win and pull together a few 1-0, 2-1 type games
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#17 ils

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:20 PM

i agree with this...the trio is the best in baseball, but i think there are other teams who are simply better....question is, are they in the NL East? Too many question marks to say that definitively they are or aren't.....in reality every team in the NL East has question marks...whoever wins the division will be a likely early playoff departure..unless the Phils win and pull together a few 1-0, 2-1 type games

Why would the NL East teams be an early departure? I think the NL East has stronger teams than either the central or west. Sure, the teams we compete with (and will lose to often) wouldn't really stand out in the AL East or AL West, but I just feel the NL is weaker than it has been in several years.

#18 StrawberryFieldsForever

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:32 AM

Halladay yesterday allowed just 2 hits in 8 scoreless innings, and that's after a supposed lousy spring.

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#19 Hoovbacca

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

Why would the NL East teams be an early departure? I think the NL East has stronger teams than either the central or west. Sure, the teams we compete with (and will lose to often) wouldn't really stand out in the AL East or AL West, but I just feel the NL is weaker than it has been in several years.


i guess there is some truth to that...the NL is weaker, much weaker with Albert and Prince jumping to the AL...it just seems like to me the NL East (and really the NL as a whole i suppose) has become more about pitching than anything else...i guess the question will be how will that play against the AL....all i know is, unless there are more than 1 token Met (and i doubt there would be), i see no reason to watch the All Star Game this year lol
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#20 ils

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:33 PM

i guess there is some truth to that...the NL is weaker, much weaker with Albert and Prince jumping to the AL...it just seems like to me the NL East (and really the NL as a whole i suppose) has become more about pitching than anything else...i guess the question will be how will that play against the AL....all i know is, unless there are more than 1 token Met (and i doubt there would be), i see no reason to watch the All Star Game this year lol

That might be true. You know the lineups of the NL suck when the Mets had one of the best last year, and might be above average again.




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