15 replies to this topic

[Train]

Wow.. Manny was informed of an issue under the drug program and he abruptly retires.

Manny Retires

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

Presumably he retires because he's been caught cheating/juicing again, or something similar, and rather than face the total humiliation of a further long ban, he walks out on the Rays. I had a feeling they would live to regret the day they offered that loser a contract. I hope one day he ends up bankrupt and living in a dumpster, good riddance to one of the most self-regarding selfish pimps and worthless pieces of human crap that the world of baseball has ever seen.

[ZachTavlin]

Presumably he retires because he's been caught cheating/juicing again, or something similar, and rather than face the total humiliation of a further long ban, he walks out on the Rays. I had a feeling they would live to regret the day they offered that loser a contract. I hope one day he ends up bankrupt and living in a dumpster, good riddance to one of the most self-regarding selfish pimps and worthless pieces of human crap that the world of baseball has ever seen.

I always thought Manny was a cool guy.

[ils]

I always thought Manny was a cool guy.

Yeah, sad to see a baseball great go out this way. Also sad to see the Rays lose a good bat.

[AddyHawk]

Does this mean ManRam in NY is retiring as well? Do we have a winner?

[birtelcom]

Most Career Post-Season Home Runs:
Manny Ramirez 29
Bernie Williams 22
Derek Jeter 20
Mickey Mantle/Reggie Jackson 18


Most World Series Games Won, Playing For Teams Other Than the Yankees, 1962-2010:
Pete Rose 17
Lonnie Smith 16
Gene Tenace 14
Manny Ramirez 13


In the past 56 years, the Cleveland Indians have won only two AL pennants, both of them with Manny as their starting right fielder.
In the past 92 years, the Boston Red Sox have won only two World Series championships, both of them with Manny as their starting left fielder.

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

This is why some people I know just laugh at baseball, and consider baseball to be a corrupt sport with little integrity these days, guys like Ramirez once again just brings shame on the whole sport, so how people can defend him I simply have no idea, but anyway. Once they took away his steroids, he was done, so to me none of those 'achievements' with the Indians and Red Sox mean anything, he was probably getting 'help' throughout. Anyway it has been confirmed that he just tested positive again for drugs during Spring Training, the second time inside a year. Not only does this make him one of the biggest serial cheats of the modern sporting era, it makes him a brainless sap for thinking he can do it and not get caught. People can defend him all they like, he's banked over $200M in his career under fraudulent circumstances, what an embarrassment he has become, now he takes the coward's way out and quits rather than face the music, not even a word of apology to Rays fans.

[Metsfan980]

This is why some people I know just laugh at baseball, and consider baseball to be a corrupt sport with no integrity these days, guys like Ramirez once again just brings shame on the whole sport, so how anyone can defend him I simply have NO idea. Once they took away his steroids, he was done, so none of those 'achievements' with the Indians and Red Sox mean anything, he was probably getting 'help' throughout. Anyway it has been confirmed that he just tested positive again for drugs during Spring Training, the second time inside a year. Not only does this make him one of the biggest serial cheats of the modern sporting era, it makes him a brainless sap for thinking he can do it and not get caught. People can defend him all they like, he's banked over $200M in his career under fraudulent circumstances, what an embarrassment he has become, now he takes the coward's way out and quits rather than face the music.

I don't have a problem with the players using steroids or any other stimulant to improve their training and endurance.

I think the majority of players over the last two decades in the MLB were using something, so a player was handicapping themself by "staying clean."

MLB players were only inflicting harm upon their own body when they used these drugs, so I think they could have done much worse things.

The NFL, for instance, has a much larger problem with its players (and has had this problem for a while).

According to the book "Pros and Cons: The Criminals Who Play in the NFL," 21 percent of the players in the NFL, at the time of the book's publication in 1998, had been charged with a serious crime.

I would be shocked to find out that that rate has decreased over the last decade--if anything, I bet it has increased.

In my opinion, the NFL is the tough league to root for.

Here's a blog that keeps track of crimes committed by NFL players: http://nflcrimes.blogspot.com/

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

That's a pretty damning account of the NFL there Metsfan980, a lot of which I didn't realise.

I won't pointlessly repeat myself on the whole Man-Ram thing, I think it's pretty clear where I personally stand on 'roids and cheats, except to say it's not for the players to legislate for themselves as to which substances are banned, and which aren't, or which rules they should obey, and which ones they don't, that is just a one-way trip towards total anarchy in organised professional sports. Like in any sport, MLB has rules and regulations which players have to follow whether they like them or not, and at least now - if not 10-15 years ago when we know a lot of players juiced - these drugs are banned, and so players still taking them to try and gain an advantage, as Ramirez does, are cheats with zero credibility.

[ils]

This is why some people I know just laugh at baseball, and consider baseball to be a corrupt sport with little integrity these days, guys like Ramirez once again just brings shame on the whole sport, so how people can defend him I simply have no idea, but anyway. Once they took away his steroids, he was done, so to me none of those 'achievements' with the Indians and Red Sox mean anything, he was probably getting 'help' throughout. Anyway it has been confirmed that he just tested positive again for drugs during Spring Training, the second time inside a year. Not only does this make him one of the biggest serial cheats of the modern sporting era, it makes him a brainless sap for thinking he can do it and not get caught. People can defend him all they like, he's banked over $200M in his career under fraudulent circumstances, what an embarrassment he has become, now he takes the coward's way out and quits rather than face the music, not even a word of apology to Rays fans.

If you want to label baseball as corrupt, i think the players have a very small role in that. The owners hide their books from public scrutiny, then cry poor and demand taxpayers to build them subsidized stadiums.

Steroids are tested for and the offenders are now punished, so I don't see the need for moral outrage. When one of the biggest stars in the game is caught twice, I don't see how you can use that for evidence of corruption or shame on the sport.

I for one, will miss watching Manny play.

[StrawberryFieldsForever]

Friends and family of mine never watch baseball any more, because they just see it as a) a game entirely under the control not of the league, but of player agents and the player's union, who are in tandem with b ) players with no professional integrity beyond the blind pursuit of the next obscenely bloated money-for-old-rope contract, and c) for two decades awash with a still apparently ongoing culture of cheating via the use of banned performance-enhancing-drugs. If I'm wrong, then show me specifically which of these 3 things is purely in my imagination??!!

[ils]

Friends and family of mine never watch baseball any more, because they just see it as a) a game entirely under the control not of the league, but of player agents and the player's union, who are in tandem with b ) players with no professional integrity beyond the blind pursuit of the next obscenely bloated money-for-old-rope contract, and c) for two decades awash with a still apparently ongoing culture of cheating via the use of banned performance-enhancing-drugs. If I'm wrong, then show me specifically which of these 3 things is purely in my imagination??!!

- To the extend A is true, I think it is an incredible positive for the sport. Just look at how concussions are handled in the MLB vs. NFL. In addition, like I mentioned earlier, the owners are generally more unlikeable in their activities, so screw them.
- I think B is just silly. The vast majority of players don't have bloated contracts, and this is no different from pretty much any sport. In the end, the total amount of salary given out is what the fans are willing to pay (edit: also, see 980's post below).
- Don't know what to say about C. One of the biggest starts in the sport got caught twice and was forced into retirement. Is that not proof that the new policy works about as well as it can? What more do you want? Go back in time and test for the 2 decades that were missed?

[Metsfan980]

Friends and family of mine never watch baseball any more, because they just see it as a) a game entirely under the control not of the league, but of player agents and the player's union, who are in tandem with b ) players with no professional integrity beyond the blind pursuit of the next obscenely bloated money-for-old-rope contract, and c) for two decades awash with a still apparently ongoing culture of cheating via the use of banned performance-enhancing-drugs. If I'm wrong, then show me specifically which of these 3 things is purely in my imagination??!!

Major League Baseball is an incredibly profitable sport, so much so that Bud Selig rakes in close to $20M per year, and his pay comes from a small percentage of each team's yearly profits (i.e., there's a ton of money being pocketed by owners around the league).

If the owners and operators of the league are pocketing tens of millions of dollars each year, then I can't agree with your statement that the players, their agents and the union are running the league.

My personal stance is that the players are actually underpaid and have numerous freedoms to further pursue through collective bargaining.

It's easy to think that Alex Rodriguez is a problem when we know his salary; however, it is extremely difficult to victimize the investors that fund, and receive returns on, the Yankees because their pockets are stuffed with money that we, the fans, currently have no information about.

I agree with ils, the 'bad guys' in baseball--if there are any--are the owners. They receive far too many breaks--publicly subsidized stadiums are just one example--and pocket far too much money. I would like to see a greater proportion of that money end up in the hands of the entertainers I pay to watch.

[Doc]

I would like to see a greater proportion of that money end up in the hands of the entertainers I pay to watch.

Personally I would rather see it in more reasonably priced seats and concessions.

As to the argument about PED use, for the casual or less than casual watchers of the game, things like this certainly do turn them off. You may say so what, they aren't fans. Except they make up the largest group of potential customers. TV advertisers don't want them alienated. T-shirt sales people don't want the alienated. And finally Bud gets it and he does not want them alienated.

While I too will miss watching Manny, I'm glad he was caught if he was using, and it bothers me little that he won't be playing anymore.

[goldglv17]

Think Manny just waved goodbye to the Hall of Fame as well as his baseball career. I'm surprised he retired instead of taking the season ban and giving it another shot next year. I mean how could this be more humiliating than his last bust when he claimed he was taking female fertility pills.

My stance on roids has changed over the years. Initially I did take a holier-than-thou attitude about them and damned anyone who would sully the integrity of the sport I love so much. At this point though I have become so desensitized to news of a 90s/00s slugger getting busted that it barely elicits a shrug from me. The owners needed to get the fans back in the seats and created the monster, then turned a blind eye as that monsters drew the crowds to see the freak shows. Suddenly the monsters became too big to ignore any longer and they suffered the repercussions:

[Retire#17]

Guess what steroids can't make you hit a baseball better. Manny was not a one dimensional steroid goon (McGuire, Sosa) he was an RBI machine who hit to every field with power.