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Posted by
goldglv17 
By: E.J. Stankiewicz
The Mets recently announced that they will create a committee to evaluate past players and determine if they should be enshrined in the Mets Hall of Fame. While the concept may sound foreign to the casual fan, this Hall does actually exist. Sadly for years it was only able to be viewed by those who had access to the Diamond Club at Shea or this past year, access to a storage unit in Queens. While it really consisted of no more than a few busts in a display case, it is more the recognition of what these individuals have brought to the franchise and gives the fans a chance to honor them. I had the privilege of being at both Tommie Agee and Gary Carter’s induction ceremonies, and they were truly some of my most cherished memories of Shea.
I applaud the choice of the three media members chosen to be part of the selection committee. In Marty Noble, Gary Cohen and Howie Rose you have three men who have covered or followed this team as a fan since its inception. In fact I am so pleased with their selection to the committee that I am advocating expanding their role beyond that of just the Mets Hall of Fame and allowing them to choose potential candidates for new retired numbers. Both of these honors are long overdue examining by the organization. The last member elected to the HOF was in 2002, the last number retired was 1988 (If you do not count the retirement of #42 which was done league wide).
Looking at worthy candidates for both honors, it became clear to me that the Mets have done an excellent job honoring the key figures in creating the team, as well as the great teams of the late 60’s through early 70’s. It is once I began looking at the teams of the 80’s and beyond where I think the organization has fallen short.
The honor of having a number retired would obviously be greater than being enshrined in the Mets Hall, but still both would be looked at as worthy accomplishments. Let's face it, the criteria should be far more lax getting into the Hall in Flushing, than it is in Cooperstown. In the Mets Hall we are not honoring the greatest sluggers or pitchers in the history of the team, we are honoring individuals who will always be remembered for great moments with the franchise. I have no problem with worrying about "Watering it down" as long as they don’t get ridiculous. The following are the selection that should be considered for number retirement and Mets Hall of Fame candidacy.
The 80s
It is long overdue to retire #17. While Keith Hernandez did not have his best statistical years in New York, he was the heart and soul (as well as the captain) of the teams that succeeded in what many feel are the glory years of the franchise. The Mets did honor Keith by enshrining him in their Hall of Fame, however they continue to do him a disservice by issuing his number to players most fans try to erase from their minds. Since 2000 some of the players issued #17 include: Dae Sun Koo, Jose Lima, Graham Lloyd, Satoro Komiyama and David Newhan. Not exactly captains of any championship teams I’m aware of. Keith’s continued service to the franchise on television is even more reason to do this. He now has a fan base far beyond people who cheered for him in the 80s. He is now one of the voices (Perhaps the wittiest) of the franchise who fans laugh with, relate to and occasionally shake their head at. Please let this happen sooner rather than later.
Yes I’m using a Shea image, because I miss Shea!
Doc & Darryl - Together they go into the Hall, and neither number is retired. Say what you will about them for what could have been in their careers and the wasted potential. The fact is the few years of brilliance Met fans got from them were like nothing they had ever seen in Flushing (all due respect to Seaver) and were key to taking this team from good to dominant. It has often been said that there was a buzz in the stadium on nights Doc took the hill. There was something about knowing every time he pitched we as observers were about to be treated to something we may never see again in our lifetime. Similarly every time Darryl stepped in the batter’s box the possibility of seeing a ball appear to leave orbit was always there. If you even knew he was coming up in the next half inning, there was no such thing as a concession stand or rest room. Darryl has often said the biggest regret of his career was leaving NY when he did. The Mets have taken great steps welcoming him back recently and enshrining him in the Hall would be the last huge step to that.
Frank Cashen - The fact he is not in right now I find to be a disgrace. The man came to NY, told his new owner to get out his way and he would give them a championship in a few years and delivered on his promise. The team he built was also competitive enough to claim a few more rings, they just were injured (’87) and underperformed (’88). Cashen’s management of the team is a blueprint for what Mets fans have been clamoring to get back to: An excellent rotation, veteran leadership with solid pop in their bats and enough talent in the minors to fill in the rest of the roster with true raw talent.
Davey Johnson - The man was at the helm of one of our two championships and is not in. Its not like he was just another good manager in our team's history, he did what no other manager except for Gil Hodges (Already inducted) was able to do in our 47 year history. He also had to do it with a group of guys who were notoriously out of control. While Davey never discouraged his players to enjoy themselves, it couldn’t have been easy showing up for a day game and fining out that 2/3 of your lineup had been out boozing till 4am the night before. The fact he also still holds the record for most wins and highest winning % by any manager in team history doesn’t hurt either.
Thats it from the 80s. I don’t think that is over-saturating the Hall from the era. You will notice no Dykstra, Backman, HoJo, Knight (World Series MVP) or any of the other position players. Mookie and Gary Carter are already in, and I think that placing those men in with them would complete paying the proper amount of respect to those great teams.
The recent teams:
It is widely acknowledged that #31 is going up on the wall at CitiField eventually, and I agree it will be coinciding with Mike Piazza’s Cooperstown Induction, hopefully he will be wearing a Mets cap at HOF induction ceremonies twice that summer. Piazza is more than worthy of the both honors. He brought the franchise back to respectability, provided some of the most dramatic moments in team history and always represented the team with the class and dignity you could only hope to get from your superstar.
John Franco/Tug McGraw #45 - Along with Orosco (who I am not putting in the Hall despite being on the mound for 2 of the most dramatic moments in team history), these are the two most famous relievers in team history (I said famous, not infamous Armando). They both endeared themselves to the fans in a way that many athletes struggle to in NY. When they were on top of their game they were downright nasty. It was no secret that both were big personalities and characters. Lets face it when you coin the team's rallying cry for the past 36 years, your legacy is firm in NY. Yes Tug, we still believe.
In Franco you had the homegrown kid made good. A St. John's Alum who never gave off the aura of the dominant closer in the majors. With his heavy accent, quick wit and accessibility to the press and the fans, Franco was truly one of those guys I believe would have indeed bled blue and orange if he was cut.
One of my favorite quotes from Franco came when he was asked about Tug's death back in 2004:
"He was my childhood hero. When Mike Piazza came to the Mets a couple of years ago I took Tug's number to honor him. Growing up in Brooklyn I was a Mets fan mainly because of him. To me he was the essence of what a relief pitcher was all about. I'll never forget a couple of years ago when the team honored me after my four-hundredth save he rode in from centerfield on a motorcycle to greet me on the mound. He was one of a kind." - Mets closer John Franco (on January 5, 2004)
If ever there was a more appropriate double induction for this team, I can not think of it. The speech Franco would give on behalf of both of them would likely become another great moment in Mets history. Tug was inducted in 1993, hopefully Franco will be inducted in 2010. This should also be a double ceremony as #45 is retired and placed in its rightful place on the wall at CitiField.
Bobby Valentine – This one might seem controversial at first, but then again if there is always something that surrounds Bobby V. it is controversy. Initially looking at it from a statistical perspective, he is only one of two managers to win over 500 games with the team. He has the third highest winning % of any manager in team history. In his first full season as Met manager he improved the team 17 games from the year before. He then led a team on what may arguably be the most entertaining 3 year run its fans have ever known the culmination of which being the Subway Series.
While 2000 was the end of successful playoff runs for Bobby, he did have one more great moment (no not the mustache game, but I did love that too) after 09/11/2001. While so many of the images from that day will haunt us forever, one image that will always be remembered is Bobby V. in the Shea Stadium parking lot, sleeves rolled up doing everything he could to assist the rescue efforts. I will always remember him being interviewed by ESPN during this time and coming across as the Patriarch of Mets fans. He had a soothing demeanor about him and managed to make his voice one of hope and healing. In the infamous first game back to action (Or what should forever be known as “The Piazza Game” we all would know what we’re referring to) Bobby V. singing along to the anthem and Liza was one of the many goosebump inducing moments of the night. While I am fully aware the tension between Bobby and the front office would prevent this from happening, I would loudly applaud putting him in the Mets Hall of Fame. Don’t retire his jersey though, he may need it again soon.
That is it for the recent teams. I could probably make an argument for guys like Al Leiter or Robin Ventura, they just don’t reach the level of Hall of Fame caliber to me.
I feel inducting those 9 men would adequately cover the past 25 years of Mets history. However, there are two more men who deserve their place in Mets history that need to be addressed:
Gary Cohen and Howie Rose – For 21 years each these men have worked for the Mets in some capacity, but it is their roles on television and radio that have made them into names every Met fan knows. Gary Cohen was brilliant in his years on the radio, but it has been his transition to television that has made him stand out. Along with Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling, Gary spearheads what has become (I say this with absolutely no bias) the best television broadcast in all of baseball.
His play-by-play is crisp, clear and concise, he allows the game to “breathe” when called for and his signature “Its Outta Here” manages to convey the emotion and joy Mets fans feel at a big moment without become a caricature of himself “The Melk Man Delivers”.
Howie Rose quite simply is our voice on the radio. Having grown up a die hard Met fan the passion Howie has for this team is clearly evident by his play-by-play. When the team is not doing well, you can tell by Howie’s voice. When a player made a bone headed play, Howie does not attempt to mask his disgust. When the Mets achieve something momentous, it is only Howie’s voice that howls in delight louder than our own. However he manages to do all this, but not sound like the ultimate homer for the team that he works for. He offers amazing insight to the game, and I genuinely feel I know what is happening on the field by only his verbal descriptions. Howie has become the soundtrack of my summer for the past years and it is time for him to get a break from hosting ceremonies on the field and be honored with one of his own.
11 people. That is all I am asking the selection committee for is those 11 people. With the inclusion of them the total number of people in the Mets Hall of Fame would be 33. Hardly what I would call over-saturated from a team that has been in existence for 47 years. Thus far the Mets have made nothing but good decisions with re-establishing the committee and the people they selected for it, now let’s hope the committee continues this tradition by choosing the right candidates.
The Mets recently announced that they will create a committee to evaluate past players and determine if they should be enshrined in the Mets Hall of Fame. While the concept may sound foreign to the casual fan, this Hall does actually exist. Sadly for years it was only able to be viewed by those who had access to the Diamond Club at Shea or this past year, access to a storage unit in Queens. While it really consisted of no more than a few busts in a display case, it is more the recognition of what these individuals have brought to the franchise and gives the fans a chance to honor them. I had the privilege of being at both Tommie Agee and Gary Carter’s induction ceremonies, and they were truly some of my most cherished memories of Shea.
I applaud the choice of the three media members chosen to be part of the selection committee. In Marty Noble, Gary Cohen and Howie Rose you have three men who have covered or followed this team as a fan since its inception. In fact I am so pleased with their selection to the committee that I am advocating expanding their role beyond that of just the Mets Hall of Fame and allowing them to choose potential candidates for new retired numbers. Both of these honors are long overdue examining by the organization. The last member elected to the HOF was in 2002, the last number retired was 1988 (If you do not count the retirement of #42 which was done league wide).
Looking at worthy candidates for both honors, it became clear to me that the Mets have done an excellent job honoring the key figures in creating the team, as well as the great teams of the late 60’s through early 70’s. It is once I began looking at the teams of the 80’s and beyond where I think the organization has fallen short.
The honor of having a number retired would obviously be greater than being enshrined in the Mets Hall, but still both would be looked at as worthy accomplishments. Let's face it, the criteria should be far more lax getting into the Hall in Flushing, than it is in Cooperstown. In the Mets Hall we are not honoring the greatest sluggers or pitchers in the history of the team, we are honoring individuals who will always be remembered for great moments with the franchise. I have no problem with worrying about "Watering it down" as long as they don’t get ridiculous. The following are the selection that should be considered for number retirement and Mets Hall of Fame candidacy.
The 80s
It is long overdue to retire #17. While Keith Hernandez did not have his best statistical years in New York, he was the heart and soul (as well as the captain) of the teams that succeeded in what many feel are the glory years of the franchise. The Mets did honor Keith by enshrining him in their Hall of Fame, however they continue to do him a disservice by issuing his number to players most fans try to erase from their minds. Since 2000 some of the players issued #17 include: Dae Sun Koo, Jose Lima, Graham Lloyd, Satoro Komiyama and David Newhan. Not exactly captains of any championship teams I’m aware of. Keith’s continued service to the franchise on television is even more reason to do this. He now has a fan base far beyond people who cheered for him in the 80s. He is now one of the voices (Perhaps the wittiest) of the franchise who fans laugh with, relate to and occasionally shake their head at. Please let this happen sooner rather than later.
Yes I’m using a Shea image, because I miss Shea!
Doc & Darryl - Together they go into the Hall, and neither number is retired. Say what you will about them for what could have been in their careers and the wasted potential. The fact is the few years of brilliance Met fans got from them were like nothing they had ever seen in Flushing (all due respect to Seaver) and were key to taking this team from good to dominant. It has often been said that there was a buzz in the stadium on nights Doc took the hill. There was something about knowing every time he pitched we as observers were about to be treated to something we may never see again in our lifetime. Similarly every time Darryl stepped in the batter’s box the possibility of seeing a ball appear to leave orbit was always there. If you even knew he was coming up in the next half inning, there was no such thing as a concession stand or rest room. Darryl has often said the biggest regret of his career was leaving NY when he did. The Mets have taken great steps welcoming him back recently and enshrining him in the Hall would be the last huge step to that.
Frank Cashen - The fact he is not in right now I find to be a disgrace. The man came to NY, told his new owner to get out his way and he would give them a championship in a few years and delivered on his promise. The team he built was also competitive enough to claim a few more rings, they just were injured (’87) and underperformed (’88). Cashen’s management of the team is a blueprint for what Mets fans have been clamoring to get back to: An excellent rotation, veteran leadership with solid pop in their bats and enough talent in the minors to fill in the rest of the roster with true raw talent.
Davey Johnson - The man was at the helm of one of our two championships and is not in. Its not like he was just another good manager in our team's history, he did what no other manager except for Gil Hodges (Already inducted) was able to do in our 47 year history. He also had to do it with a group of guys who were notoriously out of control. While Davey never discouraged his players to enjoy themselves, it couldn’t have been easy showing up for a day game and fining out that 2/3 of your lineup had been out boozing till 4am the night before. The fact he also still holds the record for most wins and highest winning % by any manager in team history doesn’t hurt either.
Thats it from the 80s. I don’t think that is over-saturating the Hall from the era. You will notice no Dykstra, Backman, HoJo, Knight (World Series MVP) or any of the other position players. Mookie and Gary Carter are already in, and I think that placing those men in with them would complete paying the proper amount of respect to those great teams.
The recent teams:
It is widely acknowledged that #31 is going up on the wall at CitiField eventually, and I agree it will be coinciding with Mike Piazza’s Cooperstown Induction, hopefully he will be wearing a Mets cap at HOF induction ceremonies twice that summer. Piazza is more than worthy of the both honors. He brought the franchise back to respectability, provided some of the most dramatic moments in team history and always represented the team with the class and dignity you could only hope to get from your superstar.
John Franco/Tug McGraw #45 - Along with Orosco (who I am not putting in the Hall despite being on the mound for 2 of the most dramatic moments in team history), these are the two most famous relievers in team history (I said famous, not infamous Armando). They both endeared themselves to the fans in a way that many athletes struggle to in NY. When they were on top of their game they were downright nasty. It was no secret that both were big personalities and characters. Lets face it when you coin the team's rallying cry for the past 36 years, your legacy is firm in NY. Yes Tug, we still believe.
In Franco you had the homegrown kid made good. A St. John's Alum who never gave off the aura of the dominant closer in the majors. With his heavy accent, quick wit and accessibility to the press and the fans, Franco was truly one of those guys I believe would have indeed bled blue and orange if he was cut.
One of my favorite quotes from Franco came when he was asked about Tug's death back in 2004:
"He was my childhood hero. When Mike Piazza came to the Mets a couple of years ago I took Tug's number to honor him. Growing up in Brooklyn I was a Mets fan mainly because of him. To me he was the essence of what a relief pitcher was all about. I'll never forget a couple of years ago when the team honored me after my four-hundredth save he rode in from centerfield on a motorcycle to greet me on the mound. He was one of a kind." - Mets closer John Franco (on January 5, 2004)
If ever there was a more appropriate double induction for this team, I can not think of it. The speech Franco would give on behalf of both of them would likely become another great moment in Mets history. Tug was inducted in 1993, hopefully Franco will be inducted in 2010. This should also be a double ceremony as #45 is retired and placed in its rightful place on the wall at CitiField.
Bobby Valentine – This one might seem controversial at first, but then again if there is always something that surrounds Bobby V. it is controversy. Initially looking at it from a statistical perspective, he is only one of two managers to win over 500 games with the team. He has the third highest winning % of any manager in team history. In his first full season as Met manager he improved the team 17 games from the year before. He then led a team on what may arguably be the most entertaining 3 year run its fans have ever known the culmination of which being the Subway Series.
While 2000 was the end of successful playoff runs for Bobby, he did have one more great moment (no not the mustache game, but I did love that too) after 09/11/2001. While so many of the images from that day will haunt us forever, one image that will always be remembered is Bobby V. in the Shea Stadium parking lot, sleeves rolled up doing everything he could to assist the rescue efforts. I will always remember him being interviewed by ESPN during this time and coming across as the Patriarch of Mets fans. He had a soothing demeanor about him and managed to make his voice one of hope and healing. In the infamous first game back to action (Or what should forever be known as “The Piazza Game” we all would know what we’re referring to) Bobby V. singing along to the anthem and Liza was one of the many goosebump inducing moments of the night. While I am fully aware the tension between Bobby and the front office would prevent this from happening, I would loudly applaud putting him in the Mets Hall of Fame. Don’t retire his jersey though, he may need it again soon.
That is it for the recent teams. I could probably make an argument for guys like Al Leiter or Robin Ventura, they just don’t reach the level of Hall of Fame caliber to me.
I feel inducting those 9 men would adequately cover the past 25 years of Mets history. However, there are two more men who deserve their place in Mets history that need to be addressed:
Gary Cohen and Howie Rose – For 21 years each these men have worked for the Mets in some capacity, but it is their roles on television and radio that have made them into names every Met fan knows. Gary Cohen was brilliant in his years on the radio, but it has been his transition to television that has made him stand out. Along with Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling, Gary spearheads what has become (I say this with absolutely no bias) the best television broadcast in all of baseball.
His play-by-play is crisp, clear and concise, he allows the game to “breathe” when called for and his signature “Its Outta Here” manages to convey the emotion and joy Mets fans feel at a big moment without become a caricature of himself “The Melk Man Delivers”.
Howie Rose quite simply is our voice on the radio. Having grown up a die hard Met fan the passion Howie has for this team is clearly evident by his play-by-play. When the team is not doing well, you can tell by Howie’s voice. When a player made a bone headed play, Howie does not attempt to mask his disgust. When the Mets achieve something momentous, it is only Howie’s voice that howls in delight louder than our own. However he manages to do all this, but not sound like the ultimate homer for the team that he works for. He offers amazing insight to the game, and I genuinely feel I know what is happening on the field by only his verbal descriptions. Howie has become the soundtrack of my summer for the past years and it is time for him to get a break from hosting ceremonies on the field and be honored with one of his own.
11 people. That is all I am asking the selection committee for is those 11 people. With the inclusion of them the total number of people in the Mets Hall of Fame would be 33. Hardly what I would call over-saturated from a team that has been in existence for 47 years. Thus far the Mets have made nothing but good decisions with re-establishing the committee and the people they selected for it, now let’s hope the committee continues this tradition by choosing the right candidates.
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4 Comments On This Entry
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Jon Neschis
28 November 2009 - 12:39 PM
An argument actually could be made for Leiter, and if his legacy hadn't been tarnished by the Kazmir trade, he'd probably stir a better argument. Another name I'd consider is Lee Mazzilli, whose time carrying the Mets in the late 70's was rewarded with being on the 86 squad. He was our pride and joy in an otherwise joyless era.
J. Neschis
Norwalk, CT
J. Neschis
Norwalk, CT
Guest
28 November 2009 - 01:12 PM
There is no one better than Howie Rose
goldglv17
28 November 2009 - 01:50 PM
Jon, that's a good call on Maz. He was another hometown kid made good for the franchise and indeed was one of the only bright spots out of what was a pretty bleak time in team history.
E.J.
E.J.
Timezkware Tim
28 November 2009 - 01:51 PM
When considering the retirement of numbers, I think it's important to consider the passage of time.
I don't want to see a Met 1B one day wearing 97 because there was nothing left. Let's not get retirement happy, folks. Remember: number retirement is FOREVER, which is a lot longer than our lifetimes.
If baseball only lasted our lifetime, we would look at the players we knwe that had the biggest stats or made the biggest impact (in the last 45 years, mind you) and say you want to retire their number. What happens 80 or 180 years from now? All the single digits are gone because we got trigger happy with the retired-number-sign machine every time a Piazza or Hernandez played?
Numbers should be retired for impact players that achieve feats that will never concevieably be repeated. 41? 14? You bet. As well as the others in that group. Does Keith belong in that group? Really?
So far no one has made an impact so great as to make the Mets a Powehouse of Baseball Teams or make an impact that lasts for generations since Tom Seaver. I'm not ready to retire any number yet, and that includes 24 for Mays because he was a Giant who played for the Mets. That would be like the White Sox retiring Seaver's number. When we get a guy who leads us offensively, defensively, or with pitching through numerous championship seasons, retire his number.
I'm still on the fence with #17. It was a good but short run for Keith, and he wasn't exactly Pete Rose, Gold Gloves, aside. Sorry EJ Don't hate me. My fav player is Mookie Wilson and he he could only sprint. Keith will always be in the Mets Hall of Fame, but let Charlie Samuels sew number 17 on a few more jerseys. It's a lucky number, and the Mets could always use some good luck.
Tim
I don't want to see a Met 1B one day wearing 97 because there was nothing left. Let's not get retirement happy, folks. Remember: number retirement is FOREVER, which is a lot longer than our lifetimes.
If baseball only lasted our lifetime, we would look at the players we knwe that had the biggest stats or made the biggest impact (in the last 45 years, mind you) and say you want to retire their number. What happens 80 or 180 years from now? All the single digits are gone because we got trigger happy with the retired-number-sign machine every time a Piazza or Hernandez played?
Numbers should be retired for impact players that achieve feats that will never concevieably be repeated. 41? 14? You bet. As well as the others in that group. Does Keith belong in that group? Really?
So far no one has made an impact so great as to make the Mets a Powehouse of Baseball Teams or make an impact that lasts for generations since Tom Seaver. I'm not ready to retire any number yet, and that includes 24 for Mays because he was a Giant who played for the Mets. That would be like the White Sox retiring Seaver's number. When we get a guy who leads us offensively, defensively, or with pitching through numerous championship seasons, retire his number.
I'm still on the fence with #17. It was a good but short run for Keith, and he wasn't exactly Pete Rose, Gold Gloves, aside. Sorry EJ Don't hate me. My fav player is Mookie Wilson and he he could only sprint. Keith will always be in the Mets Hall of Fame, but let Charlie Samuels sew number 17 on a few more jerseys. It's a lucky number, and the Mets could always use some good luck.
Tim
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